Talk:Character sheet

My Opinion

This article is certainly appropriate. Character sheets do play a role in the furry fandom. Many fursonas and RP players have them. Characters also have them, but less frequently than fursonas and RP players.

The problem is that there are two different types of characters - which I just recently learned: there is the original character sheets - the written records - and than there is the model sheets - the picture records.

-- Sirtim

Example

I added an example of a model sheet, from the Zig Zag article. -- Sirtim

Not a furry term

The problem with the term "character sheet" is, not that it's not used by furry, but that it's not a often used/created furry term, and actually more a mainstream one. In animation its used to refer to a character's modelsheet page, D&D and AD&D users have been using the term for years, as well as other pen and pencil games, in product/toy design it refers to a turnaround view of the character for production and graphic illustrators (including non-furry) use as well, all thought the full term (character's modelsheet) is preferred.

But the main sticking point is still that is not a furry common/created term, even if furries use it Spirou 23:53, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

See Model_sheet on Wikipedia Spirou 00:06, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, than, please come up with a better name for "character sheet" and "model sheet". If the name is all that's a problem, than there's needed a new name. Fursheet. Furry sheet. Furry model sheet. Something... - Sirtim

No, now what are you doing is forcing a furry term. "Character sheet" is used by furries, but its a mainstream/non furry created term, so it doesn't fit the criteria to be a Wikifur article, so it gets a non-appropiate tag and probable future removal. No big deal.

But calling it a Fursheet (forced furry term) is not the solution. Is not the first time a mainstream term has been attributed to furry and deleted. I even made that mistake once with a term that was used by the Sci Fi fandom before furry fandom ever did Spirou 00:06, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Why not use 'Fursona Reference', or something similar. It doesn't seem to be 'forced furry', and it is pretty self explanatory. --Banrai | talk (06/07/07) 15.30 (UTC)

It's not about calling it a Fursona reference or fursheet or furry modelsheet. Furry artists create character sheets of their characters all the time (and the term is just fine as is for that purpose, no need to come up with a furry version of it,)...

It's just simply that the term on the article is a non-furry, mainstream one, and thus non appropriate for Wikifur, that is all Spirou 23:02, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd just like to add that this weekend at a furmeet I saw a fur's character sheet, and it was actually labelled 'character sheet'. Hawthorn 15:00, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes,... and that makes that mainstream term furry?. Some furry characters are animated on "cells," on a (animation) "wheel," using a "color call-out sheet" to colorize them,...

Once more, a mainstream term that furry artists use too, but not furry coined Spirou 23:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I usually call this a reference sheet. Mine is even on my Wikifur article. I think what can be done here as we often do with situations like these is heavily focus on how this specifically relates to furry and nothing else and we can leave it as a fringe article. I think arguments could be levied by both sides in favor or against the appropriateness of this article. In my limited experience, furry is the dominant user these days of said sheets unless you are in the cartoonist field. Unless you're referring to char sheets in the tabletop RPG sense, then that's something totally different.--Kendricks Redtail 23:38, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Like "Character sheet and furry"? (same as "Yahoo and furry," "something Awful and furry,"...) Well, the problem is that outside furry, the term is a animation coined, used and recognized one, for one, and if we were to related to furry ("...and furry",) somebody may suggest why not "Photoshop and furry," "Layout paper and furry," "Pencils and furry,"...

The reason I bring this points out is that, having started as a cartoonist, then animation, then graphic designer, then toy/product designer, the term (either as Character sheet, Character model sheet, Character reference sheet) has always been one I have seen associated with animation first, then cartooning, graphic design, and (as you also point out,) a term sometimes used in tabletop RPG games (specially D&D.)

That's why my point that is not an appropriated furry term, we may use it, which I don't deny, but it's not some furry coined and too broad (generic?) of a mainstream term. And trying to come out with an alternative "furry" version, we are just forcing a term (+2 cents. Subtotal so far: 12 cents) Spirou 00:00, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite

Hmm, let me try something of a article rewrite, see if it works Spirou 00:08, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Heh, well, it's more furry friendly, while acknowledging some mainstream influences. Open to further rewrite, plus a screenshot of a page with an actual character sheet that could be added in the "breakdown" section would help. Thoughts? Spirou 03:20, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

No problem. My sheet is in the public domain and I'll gladly add it for the greater good! ^_^ --Kendricks Redtail 03:25, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Or we can use ZigZag's, hehe!--Kendricks Redtail 03:26, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Kendrick, a character sheet dose not show the character. It only talks about the character. A model sheet, though, dose show the character. A character sheet describes. A model sheet shows. And if a picture of the character comes with the character sheet, it is just a picture, not a model of the character.-SirtimSirtim 03:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't consider mine to be a "model sheet" like the Zig Zag also included in the article. If you actually take time to peruse the whole image further, yes, it has a picture of my character, but it's mostly centric to describing the character via text. I think mine is a hybrid sheet. Spirou, you're an expert on this, what do you say?--Kendricks Redtail 03:47, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Than you ought to add a Hybrid Sheet section to the article and include the picture there. Also, the two examples for character sheet - the hybrid pic and the example I gave - are confusing. So, a Hybrid sheet section would clear that up. Of course, I don't know anything about hybrid sheets myself. -SirtimSirtim 03:50, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

"Than you ought to add a Hybrid Sheet section to the article." No need to. Character sheets can and do show images of a character sometimes in it, and that's already pointed out in the rewrite (see "breakdown" section: "a snapshot or image of the character may also be included.") Spirou 04:00, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Irony

It's funny that all the articles I ever do ALWAYS get disputed by certain admins, and yet they have ALL been approved and proven to be about stuff within the furry fandom.

This doesn't include some of the edits I do, though. Also doesn't include my first attempt at an article.- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by sirtim (talk • contribs) .

Irony –noun, plural -nies.

1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.

2. a. a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.

b. (esp. in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., esp. as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.

I don't see the irony here nor do I see any of this implied "picking on." Spirou and I are both active editors as well as admins and we question a lot of things. Some things are inside the furry fandom, but aren't limited to the furry fandom. As long as we keep the focus on the fandom, any article should be fine. So far, your recent contributions have included furry femdom, an obscure term that was best fit in as part of the BDSM article, Character sheet, an idea that was in the right spirit, but needed a rewrite to focus on its furry use, and of course asking us to change another group's logo, which was a little silly.

Now yes, there are many other ways you've positively contributed and no one has anything against that. You've got some good ideas and some of the more experienced editors are here to help you. All you have to do is ask. And not be offended if someone else comes in and edits your edit. That is after all the POINT of a wiki. --Kendricks Redtail 09:54, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I never said you guys and gals were picking on me. Far from it. You are like the best admins I know of. Very friendly and quick to reply. Unlike, say, some other admins I know. *cough* Delta Torrents *cough* -- Sirtim

I was wondering if this Irony discussion could go in my talk page, rather than this page, since, I just realized, it has nothing to do with character sheets? Please and thank you! --Sirtim